#1968 new
Robert Brenstein

new junk emails show up in junk as well as trash

Reported by Robert Brenstein | March 16th, 2018 @ 05:02 PM

I have seen this may be once per three or so months, so I simply ignored it. However, since upgrade to version 1.11, it occurred already 3 times, so I think it is time to report it.

I get may be 10-15 spam messages a day. Once a while one or two of them show up not only in the spam mailbox but also in the trash mailbox. See highlighted messages in the attached screen shots (one shot of each mailbox, 2 cases illustrated, taken on different days). It is worth noting that messages in both mailboxes have identical Message-Id.

I spot this easily because I have no unread messages in my trash as a rule. Coming to think of it, this has always happened (at least so far), on the very first fetch of the mails in the day, that is after computer was asleep overnight.

Comments and changes to this ticket

  • Robert Brenstein

    Robert Brenstein October 14th, 2018 @ 07:27 PM

    This seems to be occurring more often now. Attached is a screenshot from my junk mailbox which shows 6 occurrences within past few days. As described above, it seems that I get the same message in the junk and in the trash mailboxes. I junk those in the trash, so they show double in the junk. As you can see 2 difference sources are involved, each using a different provider, so it seems that MM might be at fault.

  • Robert Brenstein

    Robert Brenstein October 14th, 2018 @ 07:29 PM

    Oh, I can't upload a new screenshot. Upload Quota Reached. Two of the above screenshots could be deleted.

  • Robert Brenstein

    Robert Brenstein October 14th, 2018 @ 07:30 PM

    Hmm, upload quota must be per user not ticket -- I noticed that I can delete screenshots myself, but that did not remedy the quota problem.

  • Robert Brenstein

    Robert Brenstein October 14th, 2018 @ 07:37 PM

    Sorry, it did remedy but it took it a while to show. Attaching the new screenshot.

  • benny

    benny October 26th, 2018 @ 03:49 PM

    It looks like a race condition because half of the emails do not have a SpamSieve score. That is, MailMate and some other email client (possibly MailMate on a different computer) are identifying these emails as spam at the same time. They are then both moving them to Junk which some times results in two copies.

    In other words, I don't think it's really a MailMate bug.

  • Mike Conley

    Mike Conley October 26th, 2018 @ 04:12 PM

    It's definitely critical (and one can check with SpamSieve itself about this) that, when dealing with IMAP accounts, one have only a single client running SpamSieve, because otherwise exactly this sort of thing will happen. If you want SpamSieve to handle your spam (and who doesn't?), you should set up a drone client to do the spam checking and turn it off everywhere else. See the SpamSieve user's guide for details.

  • Robert Brenstein

    Robert Brenstein October 26th, 2018 @ 08:24 PM

    Well, it is definitely not a race condition you describe. I use only a single mail client on a single computer. No other clients and no other devices. No webmail either (well, except for emergencies, that is very seldom). Could it be a race condition between MM and SpamSieve on my computer?

  • benny

    benny October 26th, 2018 @ 09:45 PM

    Ok, we'll look for other explanations. (In your last screenshot, a few of the examples are probably not relevant because they do not have identical dates. I would assume these are simply sent to you twice at different times.)

    Still an important observation: It's strange that some of the emails do not have a SpamSieve score if you have not manually moved some of them.

    I suggest you keep the Activity Viewer open and then when you have observed a new duplicate then use “Help > Send Server Logs”. Hopefully I can then see what's going on. It is best if this is done shortly after it happens.

  • Robert Brenstein

    Robert Brenstein October 26th, 2018 @ 10:06 PM

    Yes, it seems that I indeed marked a few cases wrongly, paying attention only to the senders and subjects in the neighboring messages.

    Those without the spam score are probably those that came into the trash (why would MM put new incoming messages into trash?) and I moved them to spam by clicking the spam button.

    Seeing them in server logs shortly after they arrive would be require tremendous luck. I get hundreds of messages a day from over a dozen sources and I do not keep checking them all the time. Furthermore, I had not a single occurrence past few weeks. But then, in the past they did not occur too regularly either. There were longer stretches of time when there were no issues and then there were stretches of time that they occurred albeit irregularly, meaning like once or twice every few days.

  • Robert Brenstein

    Robert Brenstein October 27th, 2018 @ 10:29 AM

    I just found 2 such duplicated messages that came last night (one at 1:30 and another at 6:30, so I saw them first many hours later). Aside from one of them lacking SpamSieve score, they are identical -- I switched the raw message mode for each, so all message handling headers are included, copied full content, and compared them in bbedit. I can also confirm that the ones without SpamSieve scores were delivered to the trash mailbox and those with the SpamSieve scores to the spam mailbox.

  • Robert Brenstein

    Robert Brenstein October 28th, 2018 @ 03:43 PM

    Another tidbit.

    I just thought I caught such a message as it came, but I was too late and it rolled out of the log. When checking UIDs, since log refers to these only, I found that the message in Trash had UID 19584 and the message in Junk had UID 1944. When I told MM to junk the message from Trash, once the message was in Junk its UID changed to 1946 (1945 is another spam message that came in the meantime).

    The message in Trash had no Spam score from MM and no Spam score from SpamSieve. It acquired the former when moved into the Spam.

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